Do we humans truly need the concept of God, religion, heaven, hell, paradise, etc. to be good people ?
There are many who think so.
Frankly, I don’t understand how anybody can buy it ! To me, it seems exactly similar to a mother trying to discipline her child by saying that, a monster will come and eat you up if you misbehave, or that some scary stranger will come and take you away if you don’t eat your food, and so on. Though, the difference there is that, when the child grows up, he realises that it was all a game, and has a good laugh over it.
But in this case (God), the child never comes out of the delusion !
I know, I might be wrong in calling it a delusion, because afterall I don’t have any evidence to prove it. Just like the believers don’t. But they still choose to keep the faith.
In any case, if God is really a nice, forgiving person, then why is He so intent on making people believe in him ?! Ideally, it shouldn’t matter. Is it because His ego is hurt ?? I think, all that matters is that you live a good life, treat everybody and everything around you with respect, not cause any harm intentionally, etc. But apparently, that is not enough to guarantee an entry into heaven/ paradise/ whatever you choose to call it. You also need to believe in Him.
WHY ???
P.S. This is an unedited post written in a fit of fury (after having read some intensely religious articles). I guess, I will update it later.
10 responses so far ↓
Tauqeer // August 11, 2008 at 8:08 pm |
Even I used to think the same way, but it was only when I had philosophy course at my university made me realise, there has to be some ‘force’ behind all this very logical system of ours. Anyways personal choice….
Just a video if you wish to watch:
dharmabum // August 12, 2008 at 4:23 am |
i am inclined to go with tauqeer has said here, in a way.
the conception of God as being some ‘one’ who sits high up there, judges us and then sends us either to heaven or hell, to me, is quite narrow. in that, it leads not just to disbelief (when we see all the bad around us going unpunished) but also dissatisfaction (when ‘bad’ things happen to us – who in our own minds, are ‘good’ and have done ‘good’ all our lives). such an entity – one who judges – would only be as human as any of us. which is a logical fallacy – for after all, in our own idea of the ‘god entity’, He must be beyond all of us, bigger than anything we know.
to me, the search for God, or whatever you want to call it, can start at multiple points. it could be the constant yearning to find ‘who am i?’ or ‘what my purpose is?’, or even, as tauqeer has put it, in the wonder behind ‘that’ which seems to pervade the entire universe, in spite of all the aparent chaos.
i do not know if i make sense. but when i look back at the question you have posted in the beginning, it confuses me in the sense that the entire notion of ‘good’ being so subjective, it is hard to point your finger at a ‘good human’, let alone to find what makes him good.
Gee // August 12, 2008 at 6:28 am |
Tauqeer/DB,
I have to admit, my thoughts are not yet clear on this issue. Still kinda uncrystallised…
In my mind, the ‘force’ which conducts the workings of this world is just Nature ! To give it a supernatural quality, and to paint it as ’someone’ who keeps track of the good/bad you’ve done (karma), or who decides whether you deserve to enter Heaven/Jannat based on your actions and beliefs on Judgement Day, or who needs to be worshipped (idol worship/poojas), or who actually listens or gives a damn about your prayers…is illogical (to put it most mildly !)
DB, what you say about the yearning to find a meaning in life, or the perpetual question ‘Who am I’, is what spirituality is all about, to me. But, I don’t think it has anything to do with God, as such. Ofcourse, if you choose to call it God, then it is a different issue. But what I was referring to, in my post, was basically the conventional concept of God.
I think, it is just an imaginary support system invented by humans to make themselves feel more secure in times of trouble…just that, I don’t think it works !!
I’m not sure if I’ve made any sense really !
dharmabum // August 12, 2008 at 11:52 am |
karma, imho, is just action reaction. it isn’t ’somebody’ who keeps track. it is a natural mechanis, which ensures that every action has a reaction, thats all. it isn’t as simple as it sounds though.
idol worship / prayer etc. is more to discipline and quieten the mind. in fact, in worshiping the ideal, i would tend to think, that we really are worshiping the ‘ideal’ behind the ‘idol’.
prayer, imho, is a lot more than asking for something to that someone who will choose to give / not give it to you. it is, in a way, an attempt to connect with the universe.
if you attribute the ‘force’ to nature, then naturally, the next question would be to ask about the source of nature, in other words, if nature conducts the workings of the world, as you have put it, then what conducts the working of nature…if you keep on asking, then mind is inclined to conclude that it must all end / originate from somewhere. and since everything originates from somewhere, that must be bigger / vaster / beyond perception, and hence the conclusion or the idea of the ‘god concept’.
ultimately, like u say, it is just a question of semantics. choose to call it spirituality. this is good, this ‘little’ discussion
Gee // August 12, 2008 at 12:20 pm |
DB,
If karma was as simple as the Law of Cause & Effect, then it would’ve been okay. But it isn’t, because a lot of things cannot be explained by pure action reaction. So, to take into account all that, they came up with the even more arcane concept of samskaras (past life doings). I know these things have been sugegsted by our wise old sages, but my rational mind refuses to believe something as abstract as past life samskaras ! How can you ever ever prove something like that ??
Idol worship could work to quieten the mind only if you believe, that the sculpted piece of stone in the temple, is bestowed with some special powers. For me, the idol in the temple is as sacred/unsacred as an unsculpted piece of stone on the street. It is the same thing afterall ! Why not worship that ? Worshipping the ideal was probably the original idea, but does anybody give it a thought while queing up for the mile-long queue in the temple ??
Prayers…I don’t think anyone is listening really, whether you choose to call it the universe or God. I would say, it is a way to connect with yourself. Much as I would like to believe, I don’t think the Law of Attraction works…to beleieve that the universe will conspire to give you what you want…is something I wish was true and as simple as it sounds. But the only good that can come out of it is that, it probably gives you a better frame of mind, to think that ’somebody’ or ’something’ is going to take care of all your needs…
I agree there are many things unexplained by science, like the originator of universe, etc…but I would rather let it remain a mystery instead of fabricating concepts and isms to support some theory. Giving it a name tends to give it some sort of a finality, and distort perception, in my opinion…
Phew, that was a long comment, worthy of a post itself, I guess !
dharmabum // August 14, 2008 at 4:39 am |
i am not sure if anybody is really trying to ‘fabricate’ concepts. to me, it is a constant and continual quest of mankind to explain the mysteries of the universe. and like u say, science hasn’t been able to explain everything. some learned man once said, “religion begins where science stops”…the esoteric, in my opinion, is something that is way beyond the perception of human intelligence, and one but begins to trust the intuition or whatever you call it, of men who have spent a life time in but this single pursuit. why, even someone like einstein, who is considered to be one of the greatest scientists,
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
if one contemplates on that statement, it hits us hard how it has been said not by any ‘wise sage’, but by a man who spent much of his time attempting to explain the varied phenomena of nature.
i would beg to differ with the notion that idol worship tends to bestow some special power to the idol being worshipped. to me, they are two different things. idol worship to me, simply provides an anchor for the human mind to focus upon. the mind, by its virtue is thinking a plethora thoughts at all times, and is sort of multidirectional. the idea is, in order to quieten it, to direct the thoughts in one single direction – in this case, the idol, and from there, to try and eliminate even that thought, where one goes beyond the idol itself. having reached such a stage, the seeker simply does not need an idol anymore, just like a man having reached the top of a summit doesn’t need the ladder he used to climb up there. in that sense, i am apt to believe that the ‘piece of stone on the stree’ would serve the purpose just as well.
the concept of samskaras and transmigration are certainly arcane, no doubt, which is why i said at the beginning that these can’t be understood by the mere application of logic, but require deep study and contemplation. i feel it is also because of the notion that death is the opposite of life. to me, death is not the end, but only the absence of life.
this has been a very interesting conversation, thank you
dharmabum // August 26, 2008 at 5:33 am |
hey, all well?
Gee // August 27, 2008 at 7:16 am |
DB,
Sorry for the really late reply.
That really was a very interesting conversation. Thanks to you too ! Btw, I like your idea of equating idol worship to a form of meditation…worth a thought !
And all is well, though I am not in the best of my spirits nowadays…could say, I am in one of those phases where I don’t want to end up writing moribid n mopey posts. Might as well refrain from blogging…
Thanx for asking though !
dharmabum // August 29, 2008 at 4:49 am |
awww…hope the winds blow some goodness towards u, and take away all the morbid moods
Tauqeer // September 8, 2008 at 10:17 am |
no posts…